| | You are not authorized to post a reply. |
| | Author | Messages | |
The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
11170 Posts
    
The Dark and Forbidding Lands of The Necromancer.
 | | 07/14/2008 6:06 AM |
| Looking for info from folks on combat encounter lengths in 4e.
One of the 4e fixes was shorter combat encounter lengths. So far I'm not really seeing it. My group has been playing for a few weeks now.
Group composition
6 players
8th level PCs
On Friday we had an encounter with four Satyrs (one piper, three rakes) and an owlbear. Encounter took two hours. Seems long to me based on what I've heard about all the 4e shorter combat lengths talk. When we first started with 4e, I chalked it up to unfamiliarty with the new system. Not sure what to think now. Maybe our group is still approaching 4e combats like 3e combats. One very annoying thing I'm noticing is how enemies (now with uber HP across the board) take forever to go down. Hell, it takes forever for them just to get bloodied in some cases.
| |
Ghendar - Bringin' the snark!
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Cthulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
|
Loquacious1
Sneak
57 Posts
San Diego, CA
| | 07/14/2008 9:00 AM |
| | Two hours sounds a bit long--it'll speed up once everyone is a lot more familiar with what they can do in a battle. The rounds seem to go by faster, but there are a LOT more rounds (which is why many things last 'until end of encoutner' if they aren't 'save ends'. having a Wizard who's a blaster (raw damage but no special effects) is faster than one who makes the DM have to make multiple saves ever round, etc (like I tend too :-P). | | | |
|
Zoons
Underboss
1058 Posts
| | 07/14/2008 9:13 AM |
| We're seeing the same here, Jeff. I would guess we're averaging close to an hour and a half per significant encounter. I am shocked sometimes at the hit-points of the BBEGs. Usually one character of ours per battle gets killed (Actually, just "mostly dead" with one TPK exception) and has to picked up off the floor to be healed when the frakas is over.  I find the length of battles comes from two different sources:  1) THere are an awful lot of minions vs 3rd edition. Once they are identified, they generally get ignored by most characters, who spend important actions on the "real" baddies. THis leaves a lot more activations per round for the DM.  2) BBEGs are infused with great heaping piles of HP. We fought a something or other with over 200 HP while our group of five was only at second level. That takes a LOT of rounds to win.  My main character's main quest is for the fountain of HP that the evil guys are drinking from. I'm pretty sure that if all of our characters had 200+ HP by 5th level, we'd be pretty brutal. Of course, with all of the healing surges, we're pretty close right now. | |
Never teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of time and it annoys the pig.
Champion of the Blink Dog. | |
|
bshugg
Underboss
1812 Posts
| | 07/14/2008 10:06 AM |
| | We used to average about 2 combat encounters per 3 hour gaming session. Now we are averaging 3-4.  The campaign is still lower leve though so there are generally less HP per baddy then higher levels.  We are averaging 1 PC death per 2 encounters but I run pretty brutal campaigns so thats not too abnormal. :) | |
Looking for someone to cosponser a midwest DDM event. let me know if your interested!
Check out my brand new blog:
http://bshugg.blogspot.com | |
| Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7146 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 07/14/2008 11:09 AM |
| That does seem a bit long. I would chalk it up, initially, to inexperience. In 3E, at the beginning, a similar encounter would have been 3+, so there's some improvement.
| |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
| 
zenthrus
Commander
4803 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 07/14/2008 2:00 PM |
| | Our group is seeing roughly 1 encounter per 1 hour of play. That includes time for role-play as well. So far the longest encounter took 1.5 hours and that was a solo BBEG 3 levels higher than the APL. Even then, once the PCs started functioning tactically rather than reactively everything ran smoother. | |
Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie?
Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers
Knight of the Large Dire Chicken
Have/Want List
Trade References | |
|
gausse
Sergeant
951 Posts
Wisconsin
| | 07/16/2008 10:47 AM |
| It makes perfect sense. Characters aren't doing much more damage than 3.5 (wizards a lot less in fact), but all monsters have 3x the hit points. So its going to take 2-3 times as long to finish an encounter.
Maybe the combat is simplier since you have very few interesting options? But at least it will be boring as well, since it takes 3 times as long.
Whack, whack, yawn, whack, whack, whack, yawn, are we there yet? | |
270+ Trades Completed (194 maxminis | 50 wizards | 29 hordelings)
References: http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/view/topic/forumid/53/postid/435268/Default.aspx
H/W List: http://www.maxminis.com/hwlist.asp?user=gausse
Bad Trades: Chaotic Good (Strongbow Lone Eagle), dndonuts, Allard, ScottWallace
Email: gausse2@yahoo.com
| |
| Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7146 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 07/16/2008 11:58 AM |
| Posted By gausse on 07/16/2008 10:47 AM
It makes perfect sense. Characters aren't doing much more damage than 3.5 (wizards a lot less in fact), but all monsters have 3x the hit points. So its going to take 2-3 times as long to finish an encounter.
Maybe the combat is simplier since you have very few interesting options? But at least it will be boring as well, since it takes 3 times as long.
Whack, whack, yawn, whack, whack, whack, yawn, are we there yet?
But everything flows a lot faster, once you get the hang of it. And there's more effectiveness out of the entire party, not waiting for the Fighter to do the killing.
| |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
|
magehammer
Skirmisher
5 Posts
| | 07/17/2008 6:08 AM |
| Our first gaming session with Keep on the Shadowfell and 7 1st level characters, all veteran role-players, but new to the system players:
We had a kobold ambush, role-playing at Wrafton's Inn, and a second kobold ambush.
The session lasted 3 hours with about twenty minutes stoppage for pizza. Some of the time involved educating the players about the new rules.
I think it is much faster than what we were experiencing with 3.5. Not as fast as Castles and Crusades, and about the same as Savage Worlds: Freeport (the players were new to that system as well).
I am interested in what the combats will look like at higher levels, but right now, it is the right speed for my group. | | | |
| The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
11170 Posts
The Dark and Forbidding Lands of The Necromancer.
| | 07/17/2008 7:28 AM |
| The whole ramping up of HP is beginning to bug me. It takes FOREVER to drop a foe and that is boring. As I said above, sometimes it takes forever just to bloody a foe.
However, it's still early. I'm still willing to give the system more play time to see if this lessens. | |
Ghendar - Bringin' the snark!
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Cthulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
|
Lord_rock
Underboss
1786 Posts
Portland OR
| | 07/24/2008 1:35 PM |
| usually an hour an encounter for us but we use less minions and are very very savy players... our dm's usually insert some interesting ways to take care of enemies that one or two of us figure out (pits, lava, traps, etc)...
Big big encounters however: dragons! take much longer if the Dm is playing them as well as they can be played. It's really up to the dm to speed things up and make adjustments and the players just have to know what they are doing for that to really happen.
but yah... overall more hp= takes longer. | |
Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
|
zenthrus
Commander
4803 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 07/24/2008 3:39 PM |
| I found one quick fix for dragons is give them appropriate vulnerabilty 5. Makes dragon battles take MUCH less time (at least the Young White Dragon dropped far faster than it would have otherwise).
Otherwise high HPs haven't been much of an issue for our group. If I'm fudging hps it's usually to keep the BBEG around one more round to make the battle more exciting. | |
Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie?
Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers
Knight of the Large Dire Chicken
Have/Want List
Trade References | |
| Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7146 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 07/25/2008 9:11 AM |
| Posted By zenthrus on 07/24/2008 3:39 PM
I found one quick fix for dragons is give them appropriate vulnerabilty 5. Makes dragon battles take MUCH less time (at least the Young White Dragon dropped far faster than it would have otherwise).
Otherwise high HPs haven't been much of an issue for our group. If I'm fudging hps it's usually to keep the BBEG around one more round to make the battle more exciting.
I'll keep that in mind. It seems like it would be strong.
| |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
|
vanrulzz
Underboss
2465 Posts
¯\(°_o)/¯
| | 07/26/2008 2:13 PM |
| Posted By zenthrus on 07/24/2008 3:39 PM
I found one quick fix for dragons is give them appropriate vulnerabilty 5. Makes dragon battles take MUCH less time (at least the Young White Dragon dropped far faster than it would have otherwise).
Otherwise high HPs haven't been much of an issue for our group. If I'm fudging hps it's usually to keep the BBEG around one more round to make the battle more exciting.
good idea
| | | |
|
Lord_rock
Underboss
1786 Posts
Portland OR
| | 07/26/2008 2:24 PM |
| | I really don't like that they did away with elemental vulnerabilities and immunities... They were wonderful flavor and made preporation feel needed and useful rather than just run and gun. | |
Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
|
| | You are not authorized to post a reply. |
|
| |
ActiveForums 3.7 | You must be signed in to participate in the
games. |