Hejas
Sergeant
435 Posts
    
Poland
 | | 09/03/2008 5:37 AM |
| Posted By Kaya Kenobi on 06/24/2008 2:20 PM Posted By GuJiaXian on 06/04/2008 6:50 AM
There is, in fact, a "tongues" spell: the comprehend languages ritual. Also, spending a single skill point to learn an entire language never made any sense to me at all. Spending a feat still doesn't quite cover it for me (this is a freaking language here, people), but it better conveys the sense that learning languages isn't something you do overnight (and five or six at a time).
Comprehend Languages takes 10 minutes to cast. On top of that, it allows you to only understand a language you have seen or heard in the last 24 hours. Being such, it's actually fairly useless. When you need to know what's being said in orc or giant as soon as you can, while you hear it... It doesn't do much for me to wait 10 minutes later and hope that you will have a second chance at understanding the language. Add in this: In no way you will be able to speak the language until you're 10th level, and you're pretty much limited to two languages unless you're willing to devote a feat to learning new languages. So... I might go for the feat, but still.
And that, kind of... makes sense, doesn't it? You don't learn a new language overnight and what's the purpose of having multiple languages in your game if you can just make your character know them all with a single simple spell? | |
~Polish~DDM~Elite~ ;-)
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
12346 Posts
The G Spot
| | 09/04/2008 4:43 AM |
| Being able to learn or not learn a language overnight is irrelevant. This is D&D. This is fantasy, not reality. The fact is, version of the spell Comprehend Languages, prior to 4e are far more useful than the 4e version.
Even the PCs who know multiple languages will not have a language skill for every situation. That's the role that Comprehend Languages fills. Oh sorry, used to fill. | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
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Puggins
Sergeant
622 Posts
| | 09/04/2008 12:58 PM |
| Posted By Ghendar on 09/04/2008 4:43 AM
Being able to learn or not learn a language overnight is irrelevant. This is D&D. This is fantasy, not reality. The fact is, version of the spell Comprehend Languages, prior to 4e are far more useful than the 4e version.
Even the PCs who know multiple languages will not have a language skill for every situation. That's the role that Comprehend Languages fills. Oh sorry, used to fill. I agree, this is fantasy, and a truly fantastic world in which wizards can twiddle their fingers and conjure babelfish that act as universal translators is certainly within the bounds of fantasy- except that this is also a game in which every character should feel needed and useful. The wizard- with a single 1st level spell, mind you- essentially obviated the entire language subsystem in D&D. Sure, someone else in the party might speak Orc, but the wizard does too. Joe the Bard spent several feats to learn a TON of languages- so he's only horribly less useful than the wizard when it comes to languages rather than completely useless compared to the wizard, who spent 125gp to learn and scribe the spell.
D&D 4e means to make the wizard extremely versatile, not mega-versatile like 3e. The wizard can no longer dominate skill use in the game via spells because, well, other characters with those skills should MATTER, rather than becoming low level footnotes that become useless as the wizard grows ever more powerful. 4e means to emulate a lower magic world than 3e did. It's perfectly valid to prefer higher magic games- it's just something that 4e is not designed for, much like low magic games simply didn't fit well into 3e.
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References: http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7231 | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
12346 Posts
The G Spot
| | 09/05/2008 4:30 AM |
| | I will agree that maybe Comp Languages allowed the wizard to do too much. That's fair. However, what they did to it for 4e renders it almost useless. Certainly, there is some middle ground between the 3e version and the 4e version instead we get one extreme to another with a wide gulf in between. | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
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MarioCleanstuff
Warrior
325 Posts
San Diego, CA
| | 09/05/2008 12:33 PM |
| Almost useless? Catch a snippet of conversation from some scouts or guards, use the ritual, storm the place. How is that almost useless? You can understand the language for the whole time you're in there.
You don't always need to understand a language right when you first hear it. You just need to recognize opportunities. The ritual can be extremely useful; it just takes planning on the DM's part. | |
Completed trades: Brenigin, desiderata, HockeyFan, MikeyChraal, Raland, GuJiaXian | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
12346 Posts
The G Spot
| | 09/05/2008 6:51 PM |
| | So the DM has to plan when will be best for his PCs to use Comp Languages? Isn't that the job of the players, not the DM? I don't believe the DM should be responsible for making sure his/her PCs are able to get the most benefit out of their abilities all the time. | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
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Loquacious1
Sneak
61 Posts
San Diego, CA
| | 09/08/2008 8:21 AM |
| Well, as a player, I have used the comprehend languages spell successfully about ten times so far. After the first time you encounter a creature that is native to the area (and you have a good chance of running into them again) cast it, and you will be set for eavesdropping or converation the next time :-)
Yes, it is nice to have it available the first time, but that would make certian things too easy. | | | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
12346 Posts
The G Spot
| | 09/08/2008 11:32 AM |
| | Okay, useless was a poor choice of words. However, I stand by my assertation that it's far less useful than its 3.5 counterpart. | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
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zenthrus
Warlord
5082 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 09/08/2008 3:10 PM |
| Posted By Ghendar on 09/08/2008 11:32 AM
Okay, useless was a poor choice of words. However, I stand by my assertation that it's far less useful than its 3.5 counterpart. That sums up a lot of wizard abilities. Wizards in 3.5 were a bit TOO useful. Rituals help address that problem (albeit not perfectly).
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Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7545 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 09/15/2008 9:30 AM |
| Posted By zenthrus on 09/08/2008 3:10 PM Posted By Ghendar on 09/08/2008 11:32 AM
Okay, useless was a poor choice of words. However, I stand by my assertation that it's far less useful than its 3.5 counterpart. That sums up a lot of wizard abilities. Wizards in 3.5 were a bit TOO useful. Rituals help address that problem (albeit not perfectly).
I agree, but this was a poor choice to downgrade.
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
12346 Posts
The G Spot
| | 09/15/2008 10:27 AM |
| | It's hard to swallow going from what the 3.5 wizard was to what the 4e wizard is. At least for me. | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
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