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relientKitten
Sneak
170 Posts
    
Portland, Oregon
 | | 09/16/2008 7:01 PM |
| I've had a lot of folks who want beholders and dice and other critters crafted for them. I'm having a hard time determining how much to value my creations at trade-wise, though.
My first beholder took me 8 hours to make, plus materials at about $6. (Don't get me started on the dice, they take forever). I thought charging $50 for a little crochet critter was pretty extreme, so I looked at the trades I'd been getting lately and figured that $15 worth of trades would be pretty decent; it usually nets me a rare or two and some extra critters.
It seems that I've hit a bump because my $15 worth is not the same as the next person's $15 worth. I'm negotiating a trade right now and the other person, using DJ's guide, ended up with twice the value on the minis that I'd requested and countered to have a decent amount worth removed.
I'm not really sure what to do. A few folks at my FLGS think I'm crazy and should ask for $20-$30 for them each.
RedSkullz told me that his last big terrain trade was ~$3 an hour worth. That'd be $30 after mats, but then there's still the issue of which price mechanism to use.
Maybe crafting for trades was a bad idea, but these critters are awful neat and I enjoy making them and sharing them.
Any advice
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~relientKitten, Champion of Elenriel Annanole, Loremistress
>^..^<
Happy Customers: 17
Completed Trades: 22
Crochet Beholder: http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/68/postid/810379/view/topic/Default.aspx
Crochet Dice: http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/68/postid/807807/view/topic/Default.aspx
My trades, references, and flavrs: http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/53/postid/808880/view/topic/Default.aspx
My can-has-want-plz-trade list: http://www.maxminis.com/hw_list.asp user=relientKitten | |
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Shottglazz
Underboss
1103 Posts
Quinte West, Ontario, Canada
| | 09/17/2008 6:17 AM |
| | As one of your current customers, my opinion may be slightly skewed, but I think that your guesstimate on the value is fair...still, I would tailor it to what works for you (ie if it is for minis you really, really want adjust the "value" of your time)... | |
Shottglazz
"Take my love, take my land, take me where I cannot stand;
I don't care, I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me."
Completed trades ( 51 ): Pikel, Darrell x2, JeffDHarvey, BiggPappa001, Ghendar, Valinrook X2, Wolfgang x4, Wraithborne x6, Mr Ruffles, Anothermullen, CKissee x3, Browns_Scoundrel, Kyrin, GuJiaXian x2, Tyngfumv, Basic_Aim, Mickey Mouse, Berus316, Crisisman, Zoons, Rockfrd, Sterling40 x2, Brucemc, 2007 Magical Mystery Trade, Redskullz x2, Stephengroy, Lyus_Sleyden, Foolforthought, 2008 Magical Mystery Trade, Kilsek x4, Generic Fighter, Auric, Relientkitten
Pending trades ( 3 ): relientKitten x2, Redskullz
WotC trades ( 1 ): Red_Deceiver
Bad trades ( 2 ): LeftEyeofGruumsh, Yotebeth | |
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RedSkullz
Warrior
265 Posts
Northern Ontario
| | 09/17/2008 12:10 PM |
| Just a note...my $3 an hour includes materials. I compare the $3/hour to completed ebay listings for trades.
I think that as long as the other trader knows what you "charge" as an hourly rate for your craft, you should have few problems :)
I have to agree with shottglazz as well.....sometimes i go lower than my usual $3/hour for stuff i really want. | | | |
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relientKitten
Sneak
170 Posts
Portland, Oregon
| | 09/17/2008 6:02 PM |
| | That makes sense. I think I'll probably use the same sort of idea, $3 an hour and based on eBay completeds (my normal trade valuation). Think I'll sit down over the weekend to figure out exacts times for crafting things. (I won't change anything for those who have trades currently agreed upon with me unless it's in their favor.) | |
~relientKitten, Champion of Elenriel Annanole, Loremistress
>^..^<
Happy Customers: 17
Completed Trades: 22
Crochet Beholder: http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/68/postid/810379/view/topic/Default.aspx
Crochet Dice: http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/68/postid/807807/view/topic/Default.aspx
My trades, references, and flavrs: http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/53/postid/808880/view/topic/Default.aspx
My can-has-want-plz-trade list: http://www.maxminis.com/hw_list.asp user=relientKitten | |
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rob_bda_man
Skirmisher
21 Posts
| | 09/19/2008 4:59 PM |
| I think it is hard as an artist to value your work but really how much is your time and talent worth? Laboring over any project takes time and effort and people should be paid at least something reasonable for doing so. I think $20 - $30 is perfectly reasonable, as is a $3/hour for non-constant work. What I don't like is when people want to pay as little as possible, any kind of art is a luxury so few people are willing to see it as such. Either way if people don't value your time and talent then they don't need to get it. I'd stick firm with a minimum of what you are willing to take, haggling is fine but don't let anyone haggle you into working on something that you'll get very little for.
R~ | |
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| Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
11464 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 09/19/2008 5:30 PM |
| | I'm with rob_bda_man on this one. If your work/time becomes too devalued in your trades, it won't be fun for you anymore. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
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zenthrus
Warlord
5082 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 09/19/2008 10:58 PM |
| I charge specific fees for commissioned painting. If I were to negotiate in-kind trade I would simply take average ebay auction end prices for rough value and compare to my normal commission fees.
Frankly, I make around $2-3/hour per mini commission (as do most of the artists on this board) and I would be adamant against taking anything less.
If specialty artists charged what their time was actually worth all miniature-related commission work would be unattainable (I would have to charge at least $200/repaint to equate what I make per hour at one of my jobs. The other job would be closer to $600/repaint for hourly equivalence).
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Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie?
Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers
Knight of the Large Dire Chicken
Have/Want List
Trade References | |
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RedSkullz
Warrior
265 Posts
Northern Ontario
| | 09/20/2008 8:28 AM |
| Posted By rob_bda_man on 09/19/2008 4:59 PM
I think it is hard as an artist to value your work but really how much is your time and talent worth? Laboring over any project takes time and effort and people should be paid at least something reasonable for doing so. I think $20 - $30 is perfectly reasonable, as is a $3/hour for non-constant work. What I don't like is when people want to pay as little as possible, any kind of art is a luxury so few people are willing to see it as such. Either way if people don't value your time and talent then they don't need to get it. I'd stick firm with a minimum of what you are willing to take, haggling is fine but don't let anyone haggle you into working on something that you'll get very little for.
R~
There is some very good points there Rob. If it didnt take me so long to make terrain, i would likely have a different costing structure. When i make a 24"X40" map, it usually takes me over 100 hours to completion, which is part of the reason for the $3/hour that i charge. If i was to charge a normal rate (say $10 /hour) the custom maps i make would be far too costly for anyone to buy/trade. | | | |
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relientKitten
Sneak
170 Posts
Portland, Oregon
| | 09/23/2008 8:55 PM |
| Thanks for the discussion, guys. I just finished my first attempt at a new critter and if I were to charge even local minimum wage ($8/hr), he'd be $48. While he's a neat little critter, I know I'd be hard-pressed to pay that much money for him. Based on the $3 rule (which is what I'm calling it now, bwa ha ha), $18 is a lot more reasonable. And since it's something I can work on while trying to stay awake in boring lectures, it is a bit more worth it. The folks at the FLGS are all wanting to buy them and keep saying I should charge more... so maybe I will for them. ^_~
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~relientKitten, Champion of Elenriel Annanole, Loremistress
>^..^<
Happy Customers: 17
Completed Trades: 22
Crochet Beholder: http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/68/postid/810379/view/topic/Default.aspx
Crochet Dice: http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/68/postid/807807/view/topic/Default.aspx
My trades, references, and flavrs: http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/53/postid/808880/view/topic/Default.aspx
My can-has-want-plz-trade list: http://www.maxminis.com/hw_list.asp user=relientKitten | |
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Username
Warlord
5687 Posts
| | 09/29/2008 2:23 PM |
| | 8 (full?)hrs and 6$ material?! I would charge some serious cash for one of those or a goodly amount of minis. | |
Originally posted by Schooly_D
Username - he deals in minis
Champion of Lhesh Haruuc Shaarat'kor | |
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relientKitten
Sneak
170 Posts
Portland, Oregon
| | 09/29/2008 4:48 PM |
| 8 (full?)hrs and 6$ material?! I would charge some serious cash for one of those or a goodly amount of minis.
Yes, full. I sat down and crafted in two solid chunks of time so I could get timing right.
Problem is people don't want to pay that much (I know I wouldn't). I've had two people balk at even the $3/hr (because my trade values are so much lower than the price guide; one was understanding and continued with their 'order', the other was not so much). | |
~relientKitten, Champion of Elenriel Annanole, Loremistress
>^..^<
Happy Customers: 17
Completed Trades: 22
Crochet Beholder: http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/68/postid/810379/view/topic/Default.aspx
Crochet Dice: http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/68/postid/807807/view/topic/Default.aspx
My trades, references, and flavrs: http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/53/postid/808880/view/topic/Default.aspx
My can-has-want-plz-trade list: http://www.maxminis.com/hw_list.asp user=relientKitten | |
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zenthrus
Warlord
5082 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 09/29/2008 11:54 PM |
| People by and large have a "something for nothing" mentality. It's a byproduct of living in a society where something like half of all kids think that food magically comes from the grocery store (with no conception of the growing/transporting/marketing substructures).
On the other hand, there are individuals who appreciate value but don't have large budgets. I don't mind making a few concessions in those cases. I have a couple of repeat customers who I try to give occasional price breaks/upgrades to.
But, I certainly wouldn't haggle too much. If a buyer balks at $3/hour for labor then they'll probably balk at $1/hour. A wise man once said even if you stuffed booster boxes full of cash someone would complain about the way the money was folded.
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Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie?
Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers
Knight of the Large Dire Chicken
Have/Want List
Trade References | |
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RedSkullz
Warrior
265 Posts
Northern Ontario
| | 09/30/2008 1:31 AM |
| | My advise is dont go any lower than $3/hr....any lower and its not worth the time in my opinion. Even at $3 an hour, there have been some custom jobs i wish i would have declined rather than excepted.......... | | | |
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Sean-Khan
Commander
2720 Posts
| | 09/30/2008 5:16 AM |
| Been there, done that. I personally have dropped my crafting for minis -projects; I've got some pretty successful projects, nothing really specatacular trades, but some nice; Two dungeon sets have given me decent amount of minis, including bunch rares. My Star Wars ship casts were really hot, and as I could sent them in well-protected slim packets it didn't become too expensive. My AAT casts sucked huge amounts of resin and ate the molds quickly, and as I put some material value to the items, mailing costs & much weaker USD than EURO - plus amount of work you needed to do to put the tanks together - there suddenly wasn't much interest for them. One guy was seriously trying to trade 2 low-value star wars rares (worth ~$10 at singles store) to me for one completed AAT (with material costs of maybe $15-$20, plus 10 hours of work and mailing cost $10). I had hard time to answer that trader politely.
If Euro drops a lot compared to dollar or I get unemployed, I might consider modelling for minis again. But right now I'm working, repairing a house, preparing wedding and I don't have time to model even for myself! Nowadays I value my spare time a lot, and will not do any work for cheap.
I still have some half-ready projects I have extras of; If I finish those extra pieces at same time than the ones I'm doing for myself, I could of course trade those extras.
But, it's everything about how much time and money you have, how much you like modelling - it's your choise. But I'd say that do not value your work too low! | |
Vindicated AtG Called shot: 2nd Huge Red Dragon
My collected trade reference links
Star Wars tactical combat -project
My modelling/terrain pages
Suomen miniatyyrikeräilijät / Miniature collectors of Finland | |
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