Mjollnir Underboss
 1489 Posts



 Canary Islands - Spain
 | | 09/21/2008 2:15 AM |
| I'm not the biggest fan of DL, but I'd like it a lot and would like to play throughout the Dragons of Autumn, Winter and Spring campaign. I think we should have more minis by now. As it seems DL is moving to 4th edition in the link below, we should expect DL minis some time soon:
">link text
The following ones should be a must in my opinion
- Another common version of Baaz draconian. - A common Kapak draconian. - An uncommon Bozak draconian. - An uncommon Sivak draconian. - A rare Aurak draconian.
Baaz and Kapaks should be commons in order to play lots of them in the draconic armies. Bozak and Sivaks should be uncommons as they frequently appears in patrols and Auraks tend to be individualistic leaders, so they may go well as rares.
Apart from scenarios packs (like a black robed Raistlin with a Gargantuan Cyan) and knights and...
What do you think about it?
| | Champion of the Molydeus Vindicated Blood War Called Shot: Cornugon (Horned Devil) Icons Called Shot: Tarrasque Vindicated Dungeon of Dread Called Shot: Mind Flayer Against the Giants Called Shot: Uncommon Fire Giant Demonweb Called Shot: Myrlochar Feywild Called Shot: Molydeus "Sé que me acusan de soberbia, y tal vez de misantropía, y tal vez de locura. Tales acusaciones (que yo castigaré a su debido tiempo) son irrisorias." - Jorge Luis Borges
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Raland Sergeant
 916 Posts




 | | 09/21/2008 4:26 AM |
| | Definitely a Kender! Also a mounted DeathKnight, a Thanoi, some Disir maybe. Not sure a mounted Raist would be that useful. Some Nights of Neraka would be cool too. I love DL and bring on more DL minis. | | Champion of the Kender ckissee - "providing TPK's since 2007" Albert Einstein never once said that if the bees disappeared, "man would have only four years of life left" but the theory is a scary prospect. | |
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E Thug of the Round Table Wolfgang Warlord
 5757 Posts



 Milton, Ontario Canada
 | | 09/21/2008 5:11 AM |
| i agree with raland but i think they should be done like this
Bazz - common Kapak - common (different set then the bazz) Bozak - Uncommon Sivak - Rare Aurak - Rare (different set then the sivak)
and maybe sky or cyan but large and of course a dragon highlord would be uber awsome | | Proud member since March 26 2005 Champion of the SIVAK DRACONIAN Completed trades: (86) Bad traders(2) DJchuckles, sardal Called shots:Sivak Draconian in DD Trade References Email Me | |
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mazra Sergeant
 440 Posts



 Canton, GA
 | | 09/21/2008 5:21 AM |
| Hi,
We need more Draconians, Bozak, Sivak, Aurak, Noble, etc.! In 4e could you see a Dragonborn Paladin going at it with some Draconians?
KITIARA and SKIE!
Later,
Mazra
Gee Wolfgang we posted at the same time. You know what they say about great minds. | | | |
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Knight of Argenis Corim Danex Warlord
 6809 Posts



 West Valley City, Utah
 | | 09/21/2008 6:52 AM |
| | Gully dwarf would be good too | | "Look to God and live." Alma 37:47 Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
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 Vrecknidj Warlord
 10445 Posts


 United States
 | | 09/21/2008 8:28 AM |
| I don't really know anything about the setting. But, I think that if WotC is going to produce official content for the setting, that it seems reasonable we'd get some minis specific to that setting.
Dave | | Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing; My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Mjollnir Underboss
 1489 Posts



 Canary Islands - Spain
 | | 09/21/2008 10:03 AM |
| Posted By Wolfgang on 09/21/2008 5:11 AM i agree with raland but i think they should be done like this
Bazz - common Kapak - common (different set then the bazz) Bozak - Uncommon Sivak - Rare Aurak - Rare (different set then the sivak)
and maybe sky or cyan but large and of course a dragon highlord would be uber awsome A rare sivak, Wolfgang? I know you're championing the creature, but rpg players would need some.
| | Champion of the Molydeus Vindicated Blood War Called Shot: Cornugon (Horned Devil) Icons Called Shot: Tarrasque Vindicated Dungeon of Dread Called Shot: Mind Flayer Against the Giants Called Shot: Uncommon Fire Giant Demonweb Called Shot: Myrlochar Feywild Called Shot: Molydeus "Sé que me acusan de soberbia, y tal vez de misantropía, y tal vez de locura. Tales acusaciones (que yo castigaré a su debido tiempo) son irrisorias." - Jorge Luis Borges
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PaSquall Underboss
 1399 Posts




 | | 09/21/2008 11:09 AM |
| Posted By Mjollnir on 09/21/2008 2:15 AM ">link textThe following ones should be a must in my opinion - Another common version of Baaz draconian. - A common Kapak draconian. - An uncommon Bozak draconian. - An uncommon Sivak draconian. - A rare Aurak draconian. I'll just say YEAHHHH !!!! WotC ! Give Mjollnir a job in DDM !!! Quick !
| | Vindicated Champion of the PSEUDODRAGON (Unhappy) vindicated champion of the DRYAD Against the giants called shot : huge cloud giant female Demonweb called shot : ghost | |
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Mjollnir Underboss
 1489 Posts



 Canary Islands - Spain
 | | 09/21/2008 3:50 PM |
| Posted By PaSquall on 09/21/2008 11:09 AM Posted By Mjollnir on 09/21/2008 2:15 AM ">link textThe following ones should be a must in my opinion - Another common version of Baaz draconian. - A common Kapak draconian. - An uncommon Bozak draconian. - An uncommon Sivak draconian. - A rare Aurak draconian. I'll just say YEAHHHH !!!! WotC ! Give Mjollnir a job in DDM !!! Quick ! LOL, thanks, PaSquall!
| | Champion of the Molydeus Vindicated Blood War Called Shot: Cornugon (Horned Devil) Icons Called Shot: Tarrasque Vindicated Dungeon of Dread Called Shot: Mind Flayer Against the Giants Called Shot: Uncommon Fire Giant Demonweb Called Shot: Myrlochar Feywild Called Shot: Molydeus "Sé que me acusan de soberbia, y tal vez de misantropía, y tal vez de locura. Tales acusaciones (que yo castigaré a su debido tiempo) son irrisorias." - Jorge Luis Borges
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 Bert the Troll Commander
 3964 Posts



 Adelaide
 | | 09/21/2008 3:57 PM |
| More draconians would be great. A few players at local shop use older dracoinains as dragonborn, so they see proxy use as well. | | "Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit Semi-Secret sig business: "In the age of the internet attaching a famous name to your personal opinion to give more weight to it is a very valid strategy." - Benjamin Franklin Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
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Knight of Argenis Corim Danex Warlord
 6809 Posts



 West Valley City, Utah
 | | 09/21/2008 7:02 PM |
| | The way that they advertised the set with Raistlin (minis from the Dragonlance campaign setting) with just Raistlin totally ruins any expectation I have of ever seeing much of any more Dragonlance minis. I felt that this was very misleading advertising, especially since they had already announced that Raisltin was coming in that set as one of the very first minis they spoiled for that set. | | "Look to God and live." Alma 37:47 Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
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E Thug of the Round Table Wolfgang Warlord
 5757 Posts



 Milton, Ontario Canada
 | | 09/21/2008 8:13 PM |
| Posted By Wolfgang on 09/21/2008 5:11 AM i agree with raland but i think they should be done like this
Bazz - common Kapak - common (different set then the bazz) Bozak - Uncommon Sivak - Rare Aurak - Rare (different set then the sivak)
and maybe sky or cyan but large and of course a dragon highlord would be uber awsome
A rare sivak, Wolfgang? I know you're championing the creature, but rpg players would need some.
you would run into more bozaks then sivaks, sivaks being more "rare" since they are made from silver dragons eggs and all | | Proud member since March 26 2005 Champion of the SIVAK DRACONIAN Completed trades: (86) Bad traders(2) DJchuckles, sardal Called shots:Sivak Draconian in DD Trade References Email Me | |
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Knight of the Round Table Thenameless Warlord
 11768 Posts



 The Fortress of Solitude
 | | 09/22/2008 12:03 AM |
| | If anyone from WotC is reading this, I'm another raised hand for Dragonlance stuff. | | Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
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Mjollnir Underboss
 1489 Posts



 Canary Islands - Spain
 | | 09/22/2008 8:24 AM |
| Posted By Wolfgang on 09/21/2008 8:13 PM Posted By Wolfgang on 09/21/2008 5:11 AM i agree with raland but i think they should be done like this
Bazz - common Kapak - common (different set then the bazz) Bozak - Uncommon Sivak - Rare Aurak - Rare (different set then the sivak)
and maybe sky or cyan but large and of course a dragon highlord would be uber awsome
A rare sivak, Wolfgang? I know you're championing the creature, but rpg players would need some. you would run into more bozaks then sivaks, sivaks being more "rare" since they are made from silver dragons eggs and all Remember the sivak draconians the characters met and faced near Foghaven. Anyway, this up to them. We can only express our opinions. I'd love a decent sculpt of them instead a wonderful one as I could use some instead one or two.
| | Champion of the Molydeus Vindicated Blood War Called Shot: Cornugon (Horned Devil) Icons Called Shot: Tarrasque Vindicated Dungeon of Dread Called Shot: Mind Flayer Against the Giants Called Shot: Uncommon Fire Giant Demonweb Called Shot: Myrlochar Feywild Called Shot: Molydeus "Sé que me acusan de soberbia, y tal vez de misantropía, y tal vez de locura. Tales acusaciones (que yo castigaré a su debido tiempo) son irrisorias." - Jorge Luis Borges
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Duke of Spoils greyhaze Warlord
 6920 Posts




 | | 09/22/2008 8:51 AM |
| | I'd like to see some DL stuff as well. Perhaps this will be the non-random set? | | Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60, Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger. Called Shots: Frost Giant in Dangerous Delves. | |
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Wraithborne Commander
 4490 Posts



 The Red Light District
 | | 09/22/2008 9:20 AM |
| | Yes, Dragonlance stuff please!!! | | Eye dun no why youse guys think im not relly a person im jimgang from canada but im moving to cali as soon as i get a master card -Jimgang
May I mambo dogface in the banana patch? -Steve Martin | |
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E Thug of the Round Table Wolfgang Warlord
 5757 Posts



 Milton, Ontario Canada
 | | 09/22/2008 9:59 AM |
| I'd like to see some DL stuff as well. Perhaps this will be the non-random set?
i don't think that would go over well at least not with me | | Proud member since March 26 2005 Champion of the SIVAK DRACONIAN Completed trades: (86) Bad traders(2) DJchuckles, sardal Called shots:Sivak Draconian in DD Trade References Email Me | |
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ares71 Sergeant
 448 Posts



 Central Illinois
 | | 09/22/2008 11:20 AM |
| I have said before a Gargantuan Green Dragon (Cyan Bloodbane) with Black-Robed Raistlin would sell as an Icon.   (Just don't put Raistlin mounted on the Dragon).   | | Completed Trades: drowdude, brooklynknight, Xikilm, King CroMag, VultureDoodle, Captain Harlock, Cha0tic g0od x2, Stabmastaarson, Kritter, Son of Cyric, Shadow Lord, ckissee, cavedweller, Trilistria, LabMonkey, qillan_dvra, Lady-Bast, agcooper1, Dwarven Emperor + dozens more (newest in system) | |
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Duke of Spoils greyhaze Warlord
 6920 Posts




 | |
Wraithborne Commander
 4490 Posts



 The Red Light District
 | | 09/22/2008 5:34 PM |
| Posted By greyhaze on 09/22/2008 12:29 PM And make it a 3.5 edition green dragon.
QFT!!! I definitely wouldn't be interested in the gaunt spike-faced thing they call a green dragon now. | | Eye dun no why youse guys think im not relly a person im jimgang from canada but im moving to cali as soon as i get a master card -Jimgang
May I mambo dogface in the banana patch? -Steve Martin | |
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Knight of the Round Table Thenameless Warlord
 11768 Posts



 The Fortress of Solitude
 | | 09/22/2008 6:48 PM |
| Posted By Wraithborne on 09/22/2008 5:34 PM Posted By greyhaze on 09/22/2008 12:29 PM And make it a 3.5 edition green dragon. QFT!!! I definitely wouldn't be interested in the gaunt spike-faced thing they call a green dragon now.
Oh, you mean the laughing moron. | | Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
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E Thug of the Round Table Wolfgang Warlord
 5757 Posts



 Milton, Ontario Canada
 | | 09/23/2008 7:25 AM |
| | don't talk about G like that | | Proud member since March 26 2005 Champion of the SIVAK DRACONIAN Completed trades: (86) Bad traders(2) DJchuckles, sardal Called shots:Sivak Draconian in DD Trade References Email Me | |
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Knight of Argenis Corim Danex Warlord
 6809 Posts



 West Valley City, Utah
 | | 09/23/2008 8:48 AM |
| Posted By Wraithborne on 09/22/2008 5:34 PM Posted By greyhaze on 09/22/2008 12:29 PM And make it a 3.5 edition green dragon. QFT!!! I definitely wouldn't be interested in the gaunt spike-faced thing they call a green dragon now. I agree completely with both of you.
| | "Look to God and live." Alma 37:47 Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
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lewddruid Sneak
 67 Posts




 | | 09/23/2008 6:35 PM |
| Another vote here for more DL minis, more Dracs would be awesome.So would these... Â Kender with hoopak Mounted Huma Unique Knights of Solomnia Mounted Dragon Highlord Lord Toad and #1 wanted mini[for me]of all-time....KAZ THE MINOTAUR!!! | | What's the matter boy, don't cha like clowns? Don't we make you laugh? | |
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Lord_rock Underboss
 2023 Posts



 Portland OR
 | | 09/24/2008 10:54 AM |
| I too would like to see some DL support. our DL campaigns never went well (we died if we were good guys, we died faster if we were bad guys, and we only did marginally well- with one exception- when we played down the middle).
With dragonborn as core now draconians are easy proxies... it goes both ways though... WOTC's likely will say just use DB's as draconian proxies...
all that being said- I still see support for DL as a needed thing in DDM... | | Rock Bottom Pricing: Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
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Wraithborne Commander
 4490 Posts



 The Red Light District
 | | 09/24/2008 11:41 AM |
| Posted By Lord_rock on 09/24/2008 10:54 AM With dragonborn as core now draconians are easy proxies... it goes both ways though... WOTC's likely will say just use DB's as draconian proxies...
And to them I would say, "Give us some that aren't gold skinned in plate armor." | | Eye dun no why youse guys think im not relly a person im jimgang from canada but im moving to cali as soon as i get a master card -Jimgang
May I mambo dogface in the banana patch? -Steve Martin | |
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Lord_rock Underboss
 2023 Posts



 Portland OR
 | | 09/24/2008 12:28 PM |
| | I await such dragonborn as well... | | Rock Bottom Pricing: Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
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E Thug of the Round Table Wolfgang Warlord
 5757 Posts



 Milton, Ontario Canada
 | | 09/24/2008 12:35 PM |
| | draconians not dragonborn!!!!! | | Proud member since March 26 2005 Champion of the SIVAK DRACONIAN Completed trades: (86) Bad traders(2) DJchuckles, sardal Called shots:Sivak Draconian in DD Trade References Email Me | |
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Lord_rock Underboss
 2023 Posts



 Portland OR
 | | 09/24/2008 5:53 PM |
| probably "same thing" as far as the wotcs are concerned... He'll throw in some dragon spawn while yer at it!
As soon as we start seeing some db diferentiation we'll be ok. | | Rock Bottom Pricing: Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
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Darth Torment Warrior
 202 Posts



 Toronto, Ontario CANADA
 | | 09/25/2008 1:09 PM |
| | Give us a Bupu mini!!! :p | | Completed trades: 16 Pending Trades: 0 Trade feedback thread: http://maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/53/postid/807160/view/topic/Default.aspx | |
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stephengroy Underboss
 1415 Posts



 Tempe AZ Beeyotch
 | | 09/26/2008 11:39 PM |
| Not to hijack the thread or anything, but I believe WotC could seriously pull in more oldtimers with figs from those other campaign worlds also. I mean, who remembers the Original Blackrazor, and almost peed when the fig showed up? I know I did!
Of course, we'll see more Realms stuff for 4E, but who wouldn't like:
 a tattooed umberhulk with a neogi perched on his shoulders? Elemental mages or Shai'ir? Goblyns? Vally Elves?
Bloodwar was great for me, cause it was basically their shout out to Planescape players. Factol Pentar of the Doomguard was sweet, but I want Skall, Darkwood, and Terence. | | Waiting for Chainmail Equivalencies since 2005
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Random Skirmisher
 27 Posts




 | | 10/11/2008 7:09 PM |
| Hey great I also would like to see more Dragonlance units... And well i made a unit for the WOTC design a mini contest :D Here he is.... Name: Fizban Cost: 114 Alignment: Good Faction: Civilization
Level:17 AC: 29 DEF: 29 Speed: 6 HP: 90
Attack Actions
{basic}{M} Staff: +20 vs AC; 10
{A} ColdFire Blast: +20 (radius 2 within 10) vs Def(ref); 20 Cold or Fire damage, 10 Cold or Fire damage on miss
{R} [] Symbol of Paladine: +25(range 10, dragon targets only) vs def(will); 45 damage and stunned (save ends), 20 damage on miss
Abilities
Unique, Immortal
Blindsight
Lose Hat: When this creature's attack roll is a natural 1, this creature becomes dazed.
Special Powers
Warband Building: All Good Dragon creatures are legal in your warband.
Friend of Dragons: Use during setup; choose 1 Large or Huge Good Dragon ally that is not a Mounted creature. That Dragon can serve as a mount for this creature.
Champion Powers
Champion Rating: 3
[] Use when an ally good dragon activates. +4attack +10damage until end of next activation
[][] Use when ally would be eliminated by an attack. That ally is not eliminated and heals the damage done by that attack.
Flavor text "Now where did i leave my hat?"
--------------------------------------------
Here is a guy i think WOTC owns the rights for already and hasnt made into a miniature yet... Our new Good dragons, would now have a leader to laugh at when he fumbles around, but when you really need him hes always thier to save the day...
I had to involve this unit looseing his hat in someway and just let him become dazed when he rolls a natural 1 for attacking seemed natural for a fumbling old but very powererful wizard.....
I also wanted to finally have a unit that used the multiple champion pionts for a champion power, finally it has been done...
Anyway I would also like to see more Dragonlance units...
Tasslehoff for one.. Lord gunthar mounted on dragon Or Huma mounted or not mounted but with dragon mount as a ability There are Sooo many good characters and monsters from Dragonlance
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Knight of Argenis Corim Danex Warlord
 6809 Posts



 West Valley City, Utah
 | | 10/11/2008 7:33 PM |
| | Symbol of Bahamut on Fizban?? Wouldn't it be Symbol of Paladine? There is no Bahamut in Dragonlance. | | "Look to God and live." Alma 37:47 Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
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Random Skirmisher
 27 Posts




 | | 10/11/2008 7:44 PM |
| Posted By Corim Danex on 10/11/2008 7:33 PM Symbol of Bahamut on Fizban?? Wouldn't it be Symbol of Paladine? There is no Bahamut in Dragonlance.
 Ya but didnt Paladine have many names and symbols also even in dragonlance??? And yes you are technically right i got that mixed up with Bah'mut which is another name Paladine goes by...
i will edit both sites threads to include the name everyone is used to aka. Paladine...
That was a close one the final day is tomorrow :D Thanks for that post... | | | |
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Knight of Argenis Corim Danex Warlord
 6809 Posts



 West Valley City, Utah
 | | 10/11/2008 8:31 PM |
| If you are looking for any additional editing, you could add spaces in the first champion power:
+4attack +10damage
Should have space before "attack" and "damage" | | "Look to God and live." Alma 37:47 Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
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Random Skirmisher
 27 Posts




 | | 10/12/2008 9:20 AM |
| Posted By Corim Danex on 10/11/2008 8:31 PM If you are looking for any additional editing, you could add spaces in the first champion power:
+4attack +10damage
Should have space before "attack" and "damage"
ok i change that also... thanks
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Darth Torment Warrior
 202 Posts



 Toronto, Ontario CANADA
 | | 10/23/2008 5:50 AM |
| Posted By Corim Danex on 09/21/2008 7:02 PM The way that they advertised the set with Raistlin (minis from the Dragonlance campaign setting) with just Raistlin totally ruins any expectation I have of ever seeing much of any more Dragonlance minis. I felt that this was very misleading advertising, especially since they had already announced that Raisltin was coming in that set as one of the very first minis they spoiled for that set.
The Freelance Ranger in BW looks like Tanis ...not sure why they didn't just call him Tanis and make him a unique... I am also disspointed with the lack of Dragon Lance minis.
| | Completed trades: 16 Pending Trades: 0 Trade feedback thread: http://maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/53/postid/807160/view/topic/Default.aspx | |
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Knight of the Round Table Thenameless Warlord
 11768 Posts



 The Fortress of Solitude
 | | 10/23/2008 9:25 PM |
| | I'd like both Bupu and Fizban to be made, as stated above. | | Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
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MAURIZIO Sergeant
 951 Posts



 Lima, Perú
 | | 10/23/2008 11:37 PM |
| I love the stats for Fizban, it's very...him!!!
I like to see Tasslehof Burfoot stat, please, pretty please!!! :D | | Againts the Giants Called Shot: Cattie Bri. Dungeon of Dread Called Shot: Cockatrice. Todas las batallas en la vida sirven para enseñarnos algo, inclusive aquellas que perdemos. Paulo Coehlo "DnD teaches you a valuable lesson, always loot the bodies of your dead enemies"
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E Thug of the Round Table Wolfgang Warlord
 5757 Posts



 Milton, Ontario Canada
 | | 10/24/2008 9:39 AM |
| The Freelance Ranger in BW looks like Tanis
i thought it was free league ranger | | Proud member since March 26 2005 Champion of the SIVAK DRACONIAN Completed trades: (86) Bad traders(2) DJchuckles, sardal Called shots:Sivak Draconian in DD Trade References Email Me | |
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